Season 3 Episode 8: Klausbernd Vollmar on Ugliness

Welcome to Tea Toast & Trivia. 

Thank you for listening in.

Klausbernd Vollmar (Photo Credit Hanne Siebers)

I am travelling over 7,500 kilometers to Cley-Next-The-Sea, an idyllic artists’ village situated on the River Glaven in Norfolk, England. I am meeting up once again with my dear blogger friend, and professional author, Klausbernd Vollmar, who is an authority on colour theory and in the language of symbols in dreams and art.   In our last podcast, we explored the idea of beauty. Klausbernd has come back for another riveting conversation on the concept of โ€œuglyโ€ and ugliness. This promises to be an extraordinary discussion.

So, put the kettle on and add to your thoughts on Tea Toast & Trivia.  

Klausbernd Vollmar graduated with a (MA) in German and Nordic literature, philosophy, geology, and linguistics at the University of Bochum/Germany. In Finland and Germany, he worked as assistant professor specializing in symbol systems. Winning a postgraduate scholarship by the Canada Council, he came to Canada and worked for four years as lecturer at the McGill University, Montreal. He was an editor of several magazines in Germany, Canada, and Greece.

Klausbernd studied and graduated in general and clinical psychology at the Ruhr-University/Germany. Working in Germany and England in a private practice, his writing specialized on colour and symbolism.  His website is www.kbvollmar.com

Thank you, Klausbernd, for sharing your knowledge on ugliness and how it influences our lives an choices.  I appreciate our friendship that has evolved over the past years and the many conversations that are yet to come. You continue to inspire me and foster a compassionate community spirit.

Dear listeners, thank you for joining Klausbernd and me on Tea Toast & Trivia. I know you will enjoy following the extraordinary adventures of The Fab Four of Cley โ€“ Klausbernd, Hanne, Siri and Selma on their blog, The World According to Dina.  You are only an internet click away from a vibrant discussion that opens new avenues of exploration.

Until next time, stay safe, be well.

Klausbernd Vollmar on Ugliness Tea. Toast. & Trivia.

  1. Klausbernd Vollmar on Ugliness
  2. Paul Andruss Reading Jack Hughes & Thomas the Rhymer
  3. The Trio on the 2021 Book Challenge
  4. Elisabeth Van Der Meer & Dave Astor on Why Should We Read the Books We Do Not Want to Read
  5. Celebrating Robert Burns with Address to a Haggis

38 Comments Add yours

  1. Timothy Price says:

    That was a fascinating discussion. Ugliness is complex and something we have to come to grips with within ourselves and in how we see things as real and imaginary. Wonderful episode,

    Liked by 7 people

    1. Klausbernd says:

      Dear Timothy,
      thank you very much. You express exactly what this podcast is all about. What’s real, what’s imaginary, what is meaningful and what is meaningless etc.
      Great that you liked my little essay.
      Wishing you a wonderful week
      Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

      Liked by 7 people

    2. Clanmother says:

      I am so glad that you listened in, Tim! I knew you would like this discussion!

      Liked by 6 people

  2. elisabethm says:

    Really interesting conversation about the way we think about and what we perceive as โ€˜uglyโ€™. Food for thought!

    Liked by 7 people

    1. Klausbernd says:

      Thank you very much, dear Elisabeth,
      we quite often use the words ugly and beautiful without much thinking about it. They tend to become meaningless. If this podcast has changed this behaviour much is gained.
      All the best
      Klasusbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

      Liked by 6 people

  3. Dave Astor says:

    An absolutely riveting, learned conversation with MANY layers, Klausbernd and Rebecca. Thank you! It was so interesting to hear about the origin of the word “ugly,” different perceptions of “ugliness” across time and cultures, and much more.

    One thing that fascinates me about this topic is thinking about “ugly” people who are beautiful inside, and vice versa. In literature, examples of that include Quasimodo of “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” (mentioned in the podcast) — a really decent sort with a physical disfigurement; and Voldemort in the “Harry Potter” books — very handsome as a youth but already with a deeply evil heart.

    And one of my very favorite authors — George Eliot — was considered to be unattractive-looking, but what a mind and what sympathy she had for her unforgettable characters.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Klausbernd says:

      Thank you very much, dear Dave ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™
      As I already wrote on Dina and my blog:
      itโ€™s very interesting to think about this contradiction of inside and outside. We quoted Michel Houellebecq, a very clever French intellectual who looks quite ugly too. I suppose ugliness quite often attracts beauty, opposites attract each other โ€“ a kind of law of wholeness. Like Voldemort, the devil was often seen as the beautiful seducer. In a lot of productions of Goetheโ€™s โ€œFaustโ€ Mephistopheles, the devil was staged as very handsome. This goes back to the Christian ideology which was always hostile to the body and therefore the beautiful body had to be evil โ€“ and even more reprehensible the beautiful is sexy.
      Thank you very much, dear Dave, for your inspiring comment.
      Wishing you a wonderful week
      The Fab Four of Cley
      ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

      Liked by 5 people

  4. Klausbernd says:

    Dear Rebecca,
    thank you very much for inspiring me and giving me the chance to think about ugliness and ugly. And thank you very much, dear Don, for the perfect sound you created. It was sheer fun working together and I think this podcast radiates it.
    Ugliness is such an interesting topic, it’s a topic our collective conscience tends to suppress. I am really happy that you provided a space here to reflect and discuss what we all don’t like but what is trendy at the same time.
    With big hugs ๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค— and lots of love โค โค โค from the little village next to the big sea
    Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Clanmother says:

      Dear Klausbernd, Thank you for sharing your insights on TTT. Don and I enjoyed working together and look forward to our next conversation together. You bring out the depth and breadth of the human experience. Thank you for adding an invaluable perspective on how to use the idea of ugliness in my exploration of art, literature, societal structure and philosophy. Going forward, I will seek understanding over criticism, reflection over rejection, openness over close-mindedness. This year I will read books that I have previously cast aside, view art that I didnโ€™t understand and accept ugliness as essential to the human experience. I am honoured that you joined me on TTT. Your generosity and compassion add light and hope in a world of complexity. Much love and many hugs from Don and me coming to our dear friends, The Fab Four of Cley.

      Liked by 5 people

  5. Dina says:

    Dear Rebecca, dear Klausbernd, and dear Don in the background โค๏ธ

    What an inspiring conversation! I must confess, I have learned so much in a very short time following the conversations about ugliness here and on our blog that I have to express a huge thank you to all three of you. It’s mindblowing! Last Sunday I purposely went out and to capture ugliness for our co-post. What a disaster, I failed from beginning to the end. Looking back, could it be that I followed the wrong approach and subsequently didn’t get the ugliness I was hoping for?

    What is the purpose of a photograph?
    Oh dear, this is equally difficult to define as what is the purpose of a text?
    Surely it should thrive be a record of … what?
    Hmm, a unique situation, a unique point of view?
    Or rather, the illusion we call reality?

    And, ideally, should this record, this illusion, the point of view, trigger some reflection, some sort of emotion โ€“ good or bad, because if thereโ€™s no reflection, no emotion elicited in the audience, then the image has no impact at all โ€“ and thus wonโ€™t be remembered??
    Taking this one step further, does it matter if the emotion is positive or negative, like good and bad or beautiful and ugly?

    Thinking about my seals; I would never even think about capturing a mammal the way I captured the pile of shit in the abandoned farmhouse.

    What is ugliness if it’s the new beauty?

    I feel exhausted now, have to sleep it over and then it hopefully comes to me.
    Klausbernd says; we always look for answers.
    Yet, it’s more important to ask the right questions. This takes the burden off my shoulders. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Good night to you in Vancouver, big hugs and lots of love coming across the pond. Love you all!
    Dina-Hanne x

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Clanmother says:

      Dearest Dina-Hanne, this conversation was mind blowing to me as well and continues to ignite a wider reflection for me. I especially appreciated Klausberndโ€™s thought on how his sister is able to provide understanding to those who do not see beauty in modern art (something that I have struggled with over the years.) Photography has become ubiquitous so that much of the thought and purpose behind a photo may be lost. When I view your photography, I โ€œfeelโ€ the emotional nuances, which makes me pause, reflect and respond to the story and messages .

      I believe that the greatest benefit of photos is that they crystallize time that will never come again. When we press the button, time has been captured and can be archived. The story and message remains intact, but the responses will change over time. When I was talking with my mother, Frances, about the 1930โ€™s I explored the photos of Dorothea Lange, Arthur Rothstein, Theodor Jung, to name a few. My mother said that the sandstorms were so thick that the chickens thought is was night and went to roost in the early afternoon. I could not envision this until I saw the photographs taken during the dust bowl. I am grateful for the photographers who recorded this time in history.

      I believe that your photographs record a pivotal time in our history as we find ways in which to respond to climate change. What you do is not easy – you brave the cold winds and walk for miles to capture photos that very few of us will experience except through your good work. Beauty and ugly come together for me in your photography: the ugliness of climate change combined with the beauty of life that continues in spite of the challenges ahead of us.

      So many wonderful conversations are yet to come. Sending much love and many hugs from the Budds to our dear friends, the Fab Four of Cley.

      Liked by 5 people

      1. Klausbernd says:

        Dear Rebecca,
        photography makes the time stop. Aldous Huxley wanted to write a novel about when the time has come to a stop. Unfortunately, he died before he really started. For Goethe in “Faust” making the time stop would give Faust into the power of the devil. But that’s a bit off the track here, sorry.
        Every photo is a historical document and few photos are more. They are producing something new – some new style or/and something new the onlooker is getting aware of. In a way, a ‘good’ photograph is beyond beauty and ugliness, isn’t it? And Hanne-Dina is able to produce such pictures.
        Big hugs ๐Ÿค— ๐Ÿค—
        Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

        Liked by 4 people

      2. Clanmother says:

        I agree wholeheartedly, Klausbernd. Hanne-Dina has an extraordinary way capturing the essence of a time and awareness. I think her gift comes from a place of deep knowledge and compassion.

        Liked by 4 people

      3. Dina says:

        Thank you so much for your kind and thought-provoking words, Rebecca. I’m also very grateful for the photo documentation from the past. My library of photo documentation and artwork by photographers are steadily growing and thanks to you, now including three books by and about Cindy Sherman. There’s so much learn from others.
        We just had another controversial discussion about why the images failed to present ugliness. I refuse to deliberately throw aboard anything I know about composition and editing in order to let my technical work appear “ugly”! ๐Ÿ™‚ But this is not primarily about the ugliness in my photos; it IS difficult to capture the essence of ugliness. And besides; when we write or talk about ugliness we don’t change our art of WRITING or SPEAKING.
        Our discussion at the breakfast table was nevertheless very interesting (for the psychologist ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) because of my NO! reaction.
        After having given it some thought, I agree;
        There is a very odd conflicting feeling caused by a beautiful image of an ugly object โ€“ almost akin to a guilty pleasure. Bottom line: be pleased if thereโ€™s any emotion from your audience at all; the stronger, the better. Be very concerned if thereโ€™s no reaction at all because it means the image does not work โ€“ beautiful or otherwise.
        For something to trigger emotion in us, it must touch our minds at an irrational level: This is probably the core of beauty or ugliness. It is impossible to describe why the proportions of one object might be beautiful, but another similar one grotesque; you cannot describe a set of rules to quantify when an unexpected asymmetry or design flourish results in the one imbalance that creates profoundness โ€“ or when it simply looks out of place. If anything, both beauty and ugliness are the opposite ends of the same thing: an exception to the ordinary. One triggers positive emotions, the other, negative. What qualifies as an exception is of course different to different people, and a product of their own experiences, biases and resultant preferences.

        What would you go for, dear Rebecca, if I challenge you to go outside with your camera or phone – what would you capture to illustrate “the ugly”? I wonder if any of the photo challenges out there ever had the topic “The Ugly”?

        Love and hugs to you
        Dina-Hanne

        Liked by 3 people

      4. Clanmother says:

        Dina – I have read your comments over that over again. I had goosebumps when I read โ€œIf I challenge you to go outside…what would you capture to illustrate โ€œthe ugly.โ€ I have no idea how I would accomplish this challenge. Your thoughts that โ€œbeauty and ugliness are the opposite end of the same thing, an exception to the ordinaryโ€ opens new doors of exploration for me. Why do we discount the ordinary? So many wonderful questions and conversations, Dina-Hanne. Sending much love and many hugs along with my gratitude.๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Klausbernd says:

        Dear Rebecca,
        you ask, why do we discount the ordinary?
        The ordinary doesn’t need to be expressed because everyone knows it anyhow. If you just follow the mainstream there is neither a chance to learn nor the possibility of changes, it’s just a standstill, it’s rigidity.
        The ordinary is boring, it lacks tension and therefore it isn’t interesting.
        We love the extra-ordinary
        HUGS ๐Ÿค—
        The Fab Four of Cley
        ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Clanmother says:

        Oh, another thought to keep me motivated. How do we change the ordinary into the extraordinary? A big thank you and hugs to my dear friends, The Fab Four of Cley!

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Dina says:

        Oh dear, Rebecca and Klausbernd, I had just written such a long comment and suddenly the page did something like reloading and it was gone, so frustrating! I’ll try again. When this happen to KB (and you know he can write long) he says, I know what it was about, I’ll write it a second time and it’ll probably be better this time. I’m not expecting this outcome, so bear with me.

        “The use their language to transport a message. There is no communication without a message. But it matters if the senders understand what they communicate. Authors only communicate with other authors only in courses dealing with writing or on a higher level in the literary critique. But these are mostly not the authors who are active in the same genre.”

        Last night we watched a most interesting literary discussion; the four participants were highly educated in literature and languages and displayed four different views and ways of interpreting the novels. To watch was amusing, entertaining and educating.
        Yes, I agree, to be able to comprehend and appreciate an art form to its fullest, one has to be educated in it. However, many people that are not (and Iโ€™m not saying their opinion shouldnโ€™t count), are not able to realize them all, and then only judge by what the literal subject of the image is: sunsets, flowers, etc, can separate the layers and have a better of whatโ€™s really going on. Any painting, photo, literature, dance dwell in the abstract: its composition depends on the principles of geometry, rhythm, hierarchy, scale, repetition and many others. So, a painting, a photo, a novel and so on is never only about the obvious subject matter. In a novel, the writer has to choose words not only for their meaning but also to convey a sense of rhythm when a person reads it while telling even a simple story. But, a person who knows about literature can find these resources the writer used and thus find the text much more enjoyable. The same with a painting: a Caravaggio may show, say, a child angel, but thatโ€™s not the only theme of the painting. It might be the eroticism of the figure, the play of light and dark areas, the saturation of certain colours.

        “You need a message and in a way every message is political. The message is the only reason for iconographic and verbal communication.”

        In Photography there are many things happening at the same time too, but to fully judge a photo, one has to be aware of them. And, the more educated one is in these kinds of things, the more one can understand the creative process of the photographer and appreciate more his sense of design and thought process. One might not LIKE a picture, but at the same time, one can learn to APPRECIATE it. And even more so if one also knows about art and photography history, because usually there are precedents and allusions, and these are also used to communicate with the people who know them.

        “In the end, there is the question what is left to communicate.”
        Phew, we are communicating a lot right now ๐Ÿ˜‰
        “But, of course, you have to make sure that the receiver notices your message. Thatโ€™s dependant on the media you use and whom you want to address.” Of course, and many gadgets allows more circulation of what we want to message, it depends on how you use them. Bisweilen, it drains me, I must admit.
        What puzzles me with no end, is what happens to a photograph put in a museum of modern art, or in a very reputable or cool gallery, or in well made and well-visited podcast/blog; all photographs become instantly better and much more valued.

        Time to go out in nature, the sun is out! ๐Ÿ™‚
        Big hugs ๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—
        Hanne

        Liked by 2 people

      8. Clanmother says:

        Isnโ€™t it wonderful to communicate!!! Life is the very best when share with kindred spirits. Your last paragraph resonated with me. I too am puzzled by how people believe that one photograph has more value than another simply because there has been a โ€œvettingโ€ process.โ€ Which goes back to the question: Do we rely on social media and people who we consider have more expertise, to dictate what we should like? This relates to art, fashion, books, interior design. This is a very important internal conversation. Thank you Hanne for sharing your remarkable insights, which will keep me ever focused on my creative journey. Big hugs coming your way. The sun is up on our side of the world, too! It is lovely!!!!

        Liked by 2 people

    2. Klausbernd says:

      Dear Hanne-Dina,
      Whatโ€™s the purpose of photography or writing a text? I assume that it makes sense to produce pictures or texts. Of course, one can question this but this would be too defeatist for me although looking at social media could easily make one think that here bumbling senselessness is celebrated. But I start by assuming producing pictures and texts makes sense. For me, the sense is to be found in that it produces a surplus, a โ€˜moreโ€™. It makes you see and understand more. Our usual limited way of thinking will be widened. So I suppose it is necessary that the picture and text have to transport a message. Without messaging no sense. If picture and text are just affirmative they tend to be kitsch that means they are ugly. If they are critical, if they create a critical distance then they make sense. So I ask myself does it make sense to produce pictures and texts without provocation. These are ideas of the Enlightenment which is always keen to make people learn. I think nothing of the neo-romantic ideas which want to touch the receivers emotionally like in Hollywood-films. This lulling of the recipients tends to be reactionary.
      These are my spontaneous ideas after having read your important questions.
      Love ๐Ÿฅฐ
      Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Dina says:

        Dear Klausbernd,
        I have always pointed out, photography is a visual language; the more vocabulary we have, the easier it is to convey complex ideasโ€ฆ
        Like every photographer, my main purpose is to elicit a response in others. Who is the audience? If itโ€™s only the photographer, then it doesn’t matter if it transports a message or not to a wider audience. Still, itโ€™s got to do something for the creator. I suppose it works the same way with the text for an author.

        If we all liked the same things, would ART make sense at all?

        Love
        Hanne โค

        Liked by 4 people

      2. Klausbernd says:

        Dear Dina,
        texts and pictures are both communicating illusions. The use their language to transport a message. There is no communcation without a message. But it matters if the senders understand what they communicate. Authors only communicate to other authors only in courses dealing with writing or on a higher level in literary critique. But these are mostly not the authors who are active in the same genre. The literary critique is a non-fiction writer whereas he writes about a fiction. Fiction and non-fiction are clearly seperated in literature. Well, you can only criticise in from an outside perspective or like Einstein, Bohr und Heisenberg already said, you can only understand something from another level. It doesn’t make much sense if an author critisizes another author (you had this, by the way, in the so called ‘Dichterkataloge’ in the literature of the 13th c.) as it doesn’t make sense to produce pictures for other photographers. Sounds a bit like the old fashioned l’art pour l’art.
        I absolutely agree that it’s necessary to have a wide range of iconographic vocabulary as a writer needs a wide range of verbal vocabulary. The problem is to express something different or new. That is hardly done as photographers as authors are influenced by books and workshops telling them how and what they should communicate. The specialist in the field of digitalisation of communication write that with every gadget you use reduces your language as well – that concerns more the photographers than the authors who don’t need much gadgets in comparison. In the end there is the question what is left to communicate. Or the other way round, how can we find something that’s worth communicating. Most of the people do the same thing and like the same thing and I agree with you in this respect art only makes sense if you are different. You need a message and in a way every message is political. The message is the only reason for iconographic and verbal communication. But, of course, you have to make sure that the receiver notices your message. That’s dependant on the media you use and whom you want to adress.
        Anyway, Siri ๐Ÿ™‚ and I don’t have the answers but trying our best to find productive questions in a world that tends to outsource the reflection onto the media.
        Now, we are hungy. We should come down to earth and going to the kitchen for cocking.
        Thanks for your comment
        Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚ and ๐Ÿ™‚ Siri

        Liked by 3 people

      3. Clanmother says:

        Klausbernd – this is a brilliant discussion that I will take with me in the coming days. There is so much that you have given me to think about, especially โ€œwhat is there left to communicate….or what can we find something thatโ€™s worth communicating….โ€ And then there is your words: โ€œin a world that tends to outsource the reflection onto the media.โ€ There is much food for thought and for the soul. Many thank yous along with hugs and love to my dear firends, the Fab Four of Cley! ๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Klausbernd says:

        Dear Rebecca,
        in a way, I am quite old fashioned following the motto of the Age of Enlightenment: sapere aude. Dare to think and of course to think as much independently as possible. You are usually more clever than you suppose.
        With lots of love โค โค
        Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Clanmother says:

        Old fashioned is a great way to be, Klausbernd!!!! As Henry David Thoreau once wrote: โ€œThink for yourself, or others will think for you without thinking of you.โ€๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™

        Liked by 2 people

      6. Klausbernd says:

        GREAT Thoreau-quote – so true!
        Thank you very much, dear Rebecca ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™

        Liked by 2 people

  6. Mary Jo Malo says:

    What a fascinating and complex presentation of this theme! I agree that the power of ugliness resides in its provocation for us to feel, think and examine more deeply, rather than dismiss with fear or disgust. There’s an opportunity for healing both individual and community as you say, Rebecca. Revelation and light are good but not necessarily beautiful. They can be terrifying as are secrets and darkness. If demons can masquerade as angels of light, there is the twist! But I digress…We shouldn’t worship beauty anymore than ugliness but rather see their relationship in helping us toward a wisdom of looking beyond and within. The rebellion Klausbernd speaks of is against superficiality. Love it!!

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Klausbernd says:

      Dear Mary,
      indeed, ugliness is a rebellion against superficiality and all convention. It’s breaking the tabu. Therefore the beauty loves the beast. The beast gives her more dimensions and helps her on the way to freedom. I would say there is no light without darkness. Darkness lets the light shine. Symbolically darkness is associated with chaos which is the beginning of all creation. “You have to have chaos in you to give birth to a dancing star”. I agree with Nietzsche.
      Anyway, thanks for commenting.
      All the best
      Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

      Liked by 3 people

  7. Paul Andruss says:

    Again I can only echo what others have said- a wide ranging and facinating discussion- a perfect companion to beauty. Listening brought forth all sorts of things I thought forgot.
    The painter Guiseppi Archmbold still lifes where he produces grotesque portraits from fruit and veg – even dead fish and fowl.
    When Klausbernd spoke of how blemishes in nature may be thought beautiful, I immediately thought of two of my favourite portrait artists Stanley Spencer and Lucian Freud. Their paintings are achingly beautiful because their subjects exhibit all the frailty of humanity.
    I could go on all night. Mercifully I won’t. Just to say I liked the idea that beauty is instinctive, easy (lazy?) and socially defined. How ugliness has to be examined to find its artistic merit and so involves the viewer on a more intimate level. The ideal of feminine beauty was generous porportions(shall we say) from paleolithic Venuses to Reubens amply fleshed matrons- all standing in stark contrast to our Size-0 beauty queens of today.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Klausbernd says:

      Dear Paul,
      thank you VERY much for your great comment and for all the examples you mention from the history of art. This adds well to my explanations. We could easily talk together for ages about this topic. Maybe one day we’ll meet and we do it with a nice drink. Meanwhile, we use the second-best exchange of ideas that Rebecca kindly provides for us.
      Wishing you all the best and thanks again
      Klausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Paul Andruss says:

        That sounds great Klausbernd -actually we are only across the way from you in the Brecon Beacons. Once this lock-up is finally over the magical Norfolk is very much on one of our list of places left to visit. Best to all Paul

        Liked by 3 people

      2. Klausbernd says:

        Dear Paul,
        you are very welcome at ours. Hanne-Dina will guide on Blakeney Point.
        We will surely visit your area again. Two years ago, we visited Hay on Wye for some time to browse the book shops there. We made some trips into the Brecon Beacons as well. Wow, it was so windy there that we hardly could open our car doors. We will surely visit the book paradise of Hay on Wye again.
        Okay, come around as soon as it is save.
        All the best from the sunny coast of Norfolk
        Klausbernd, Hanne-Dina and our two Bookfayries Siri ๐Ÿ™‚ and ๐Ÿ™‚ Selma

        Liked by 3 people

      3. Paul Andruss says:

        Thank you Klausbernd- and here’s to happier (and more liberal) days. Best to you all.

        Liked by 3 people

      4. Clanmother says:

        I can hardly wait for that day to come.

        Liked by 3 people

  8. Ms Frances says:

    A VERY interesting, instructive, broadening podcast! ! ! I feel like I have just visited a university and listened to an very accomplished, very educated, very experienced. and very gifted lecturer. I have determined when I read this again, I will make notes on this important podcast. Thank you to Klausbernd Vollmar, Rebecca and Don for this very outstanding podcast.

    Liked by 4 people

  9. Klausbernd says:

    Dear Ms Frances,
    thank you sooooo much for your kind words. It has been fun and was hard at the time to think about ugliness. With most of the topics, you have forerunners you can refer to either affirmative or criticising. But here I had to think without very few authorities I could refer to. I couldn’t stand on the shoulders of great thinkers. Actually, this was quite emancipating to be free from any father-authorities. There has been hardly any topic before that had such a therapeutic effect on me. I wasn’t aware of it in the beginning but I noticed an inner resistance. As more, I reflected on what I was doing contemplating ugliness as more I became aware of how this affected me. And I suppose that’s what ugliness does if we let ourselves in to contemplate ugliness.
    I wish you all the best, keep well
    Klsausbernd ๐Ÿ™‚

    Liked by 4 people

  10. Ms Frances says:

    Thank you for responding to my comment. I appreciate because I know you are very busy!

    Liked by 3 people

You're invited to join the dialogue

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.